Small arms vs. Vehicles | ONE PAGE RULES FORUM

dreddfett
Member

Posts: 47

Small arms vs. Vehicles Dec 1, 2022 23:52:39 GMT

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Post by dreddfett on Dec 1, 2022 23:52:39 GMT

My wargaming group is named TACO - Tabletop Alliance of Combat Opponents (yes, we have TACO Tuesdays). We have enjoyed reading the several weeks worth of arguing on this thread. We are a diverse group. Some of us are former military, some are lifelong civilians. We have a combined wargaming experience of over 70 years. I make up the majority of that experience (40 years). I've been wargaming since my Avalon Hill days way back in 1982. Some started in the 2000s and 2010s, others in this group just started tabletop wargaming this year.

We all agree the issue of weak weapons vs armored vehicles should be addressed in One Page Rules.

We have now listed all weapons without the AP special rule as having AP(0). For example:

GF - Human Defense Force v2.13
Infantry Squad [5] Qua 5+ Def 5+ Assault Rifles (24”, A1, AP(0)), CCWs (A1)

GF - Human Defense Force v2.50
Infantry Squad [10] Qua 5+ Def 5+ Rifles (24”, A1,AP(0)), CCWs (A1)

We have settled on the following modification to the special rule for shooting with armor - piercing weapons (the modification is underlined):

AP(X)
Enemy units taking hits from weapons with this special rule get -X to Defense rolls. Enemy vehicles that have both a Defense value of 2+ and a Toughness value of 6 or higher cannot be damaged by AP(0) weapons.

This house rule forces players to deploy a more interesting variety of weapons.

Feel free to use this house rule. If anyone has a different idea, or wants to change the text of this modified rule, we would like to hear your thoughts.

Thank you for your time.

thunderforge
Member

Posts: 7

Small arms vs. Vehicles Dec 2, 2022 23:55:11 GMT via mobile

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Post by thunderforge on Dec 2, 2022 23:55:11 GMT

Presumably there have been many data collections on real world tank damage by various militaries, I did a brief search but couldn’t find what I was looking for.
Real world studies should show the likelihood of incapacitating a tank using small arms and by what means.
Then a suitable percentile for dice rolls can be calculated.

My common sense says you can’t stop a tank with a pistol, no matter how good a shot you are.

HOWEVER we are playing a game, and it boils down to this question; do you want to play a game where you can potentially destroy anything if your dice rolls are lucky enough, or do you want a paper/rock/scissors game where you need to bring the right tools to destroy it, otherwise you can’t?

The latter is probably my preference because it encourages the element of surprise in list choice (your opponent may bring no tanks which wastes your expensive anti-tank specialists) but also encourages more tactical thinking (I know I can’t destroy this so how can I avoid it?)

Bear in mind though that it may be off putting to beginners if they are told there’s literally nothing they can do about this big robot stomping their troops into mush!

dreddfett
Member

Posts: 47

Small arms vs. Vehicles Dec 3, 2022 0:11:52 GMT

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Post by dreddfett on Dec 3, 2022 0:11:52 GMT

Dec 2, 2022 23:55:11 GMT thunderforge said:

Presumably there have been many data collections on real world tank damage by various militaries, I did a brief search but couldn’t find what I was looking for.
Real world studies should show the likelihood of incapacitating a tank using small arms and by what means.
Then a suitable percentile for dice rolls can be calculated.

My common sense says you can’t stop a tank with a pistol, no matter how good a shot you are.

HOWEVER we are playing a game, and it boils down to this question; do you want to play a game where you can potentially destroy anything if your dice rolls are lucky enough, or do you want a paper/rock/scissors game where you need to bring the right tools to destroy it, otherwise you can’t?

The latter is probably my preference because it encourages the element of surprise in list choice (your opponent may bring no tanks which wastes your expensive anti-tank specialists) but also encourages more tactical thinking (I know I can’t destroy this so how can I avoid it?)

Bear in mind though that it may be off putting to beginners if they are told there’s literally nothing they can do about this big robot stomping their troops into mush!

I agree with you.

For that rampaging robot, clever use of terrain (which should be plentiful) and melee should take care of it.

As for new players, Bolt Action, Warhammer 40k, and all other games draw in new players and they all address weak weapons so I'm not worried about this. One Page Rules is easily accessible to new players.

Last Edit: Dec 3, 2022 0:37:36 GMT by dreddfett

fandexdude
Member

Posts: 4

Small arms vs. Vehicles Dec 19, 2022 10:07:34 GMT via mobile

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Post by fandexdude on Dec 19, 2022 10:07:34 GMT

As a balance between the realism of not being able to take out a tank without specialised equipment and the fun of being able to take whatever units you want, how about this:

Bulwark: All vehicle units cannot be damaged at range by weapons without AP until they have suffered at least 1 wound.

This would enable all armies to damage tanks, but make it harder if you choose not to bring many anti armour guns. Realistically, once the outer armour of a vehicle has been breached, whether by anti armour guns or by handheld explosives, then small arms fire aimed at that weak point could worsen the damage.