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Post by redfern00 on Apr 13, 2022 17:14:58 GMT
Can you please go into greater depth on wounding Horrors. We had the following situation: A unit of 5 Pink Horrors had already been wounded & was at 4 Blues & 6 Yellows. They were charged by Dread behemoth, which did 14 wounds. Are all of the Horrors killed? In a different scenario, if there were 3 Yellows left alive, & lost combat, would the unit be wavered (3 models left of the original 5) or destroyed?
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Post by rondaka on Apr 13, 2022 22:03:51 GMT
horrors should read 'change warriors' from the rift demons 'change demons'. My bad on the original question.
The sequence for calculating hits in melee and shooting is 1. determine attacks. 2. roll for hits. 3. roll to block. 4. remove casualties. It would appear that when you remove pink warriors and replace them with blue warriors in step 4, you would have to go back to step 3 if the blue warriors are to take any leftover hits not taken by the pink warriors, because the blue warriors were not there when the pink ones were shot. So are replacement warriors eligible to take hits, cycling through steps 3 and 4, or will they have to be attacked by another unit?
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Post by baradaeg on Apr 20, 2022 13:22:17 GMT
The sequence is the sequence there is no going back.
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Post by rondaka on Apr 25, 2022 13:31:56 GMT
Actually, according to Administrator in the Grim Dark rules; "The split happens immediately and wounds carry over, so the 5 Blue Warriors would die, 5 new Yellow Warriors would appear and then 2 of them would die." So, call it "out of sequence", or call it a "special rule", it does work a bit differently than usual, and the extra wounds do carry over. The answer to the next question, when do the warriors check morale, does work like normal. Per Administrator; "Since the splitting happens immediately you only test for 50% kills once the unit actually has less than 50% of its starting models at any one point, so in a sense the unit counts as being 5 times its actual size.
In your example the unit starts with 5 pink warriors and has to take 5 wounds to split into 10 blue warriors, then take another 10 wounds to split into only yellow warriors, and finally another 7 wounds to go down to less than 50% size. This is a total of 22 wounds, which makes them extremely resilient.
We tried to find different ways to work around this, but they all turned out to be too complicated, so in the end we opted for having the blue and yellow warriors have awful defense so that at least it's not too hard to deal all those wounds to them.
P.S. Rondaka again. Just to be picky here, it says the 10 yellow warriors would need to take 7 wounds to drop below 50%. 7 from 10 leaves 3 which is 60%. You would actually have to lose 8 to drop to 40%. (2 of the original 5)
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Post by rondaka on Mar 2, 2023 7:39:36 GMT
Upon re-reading all the involved rules, and assuming we understand the way things are supposed to work, the rules 'split' and 'split again' should read "when the model receives it's final wound" rather than "when the model is killed", since 'receiving wounds' is listed in the sequence, but 'being killed' is not. I would add the word final for future reference in case this rule should ever be applied to a multi-wound model. Not complaining, just saying. All in all, I can't get enough of this game and Grim Dark Future.
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Post by baradaeg on Mar 2, 2023 10:02:47 GMT
Upon re-reading all the involved rules, and assuming we understand the way things are supposed to work, the rules 'split' and 'split again' should read "when the model receives it's final wound" rather than "when the model is killed", since 'receiving wounds' is listed in the sequence, but 'being killed' is not. I would add the word final for future reference in case this rule should ever be applied to a multi-wound model. Not complaining, just saying. All in all, I can't get enough of this game and Grim Dark Future. Remove as Casualty = killed = destroyed = removed from play 'Receiving wounds' is not part of the rules besides Deadly which specifically alters this for wounds with Deadly. |
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Post by rondaka on Mar 2, 2023 17:06:53 GMT
true, receiving wounds is not the phrase in the book, causing wounds is how it's written. So maybe "when the final wound is caused" instead of "when the final wound is received".
But upon further review, maybe I have the sequence wrong. Should we;
Unit of 5 change horrors takes 10 hits, miss the first 5 saves. Then the arriving change horrors take saves vs. the remaining 5 hits (at their lower defence)?
or
Unit of 5 change horrors takes 10 hits, make 2 saves, miss 8 in step 3. Then 5 change horrors and 3 lesser horrors bite the dust and are removed in step 4. If this is correct, it would seem a unit of horrors would always make saves at the best defence currently in the unit. How much of that is correct?
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